News

We are now 11 months into our journey to build a Centre of Excellence for Padel in Sevenoaks. Thank you for being a part of it!

Along the way, one of our major pain points has been customer playing levels. We quickly understood that we needed a more accurate and efficient way of assigning initial levels to players that does not involve periodic re-leveling and subjective coach assessment. What we’d love to have is an all-levels inclusive and data driven system. 

Change is not easy. We would like to bring the entire Sevenoaks (and Kent)  playing community along with us on this journey of discovery. We ask that you work with us to achieve these goals.

Short of time? The basics:

1. We have chosen PadelLevels: an independent, data driven, global levelling system

2. Play your matches and enter the scores. This data feeds a sophisticated algorithm and generates an accurate level relative to other players.

3. If you have any concerns, contact us. 

4. Check the FAQ below for specific issues and level information. 

5. Enjoy your padel!

Why the change

The best way to level people is to use an intelligent algorithm that adjusts player levels based on their match results relative to their opponents. The more data and game results, the more accurate the levels. After careful research and discussion we have selected what we regard as the best algorithm (and independent company) which will give us the most accurate levels.

We have joined 43 other clubs in the UK that have selected PadelLevels (provided by LevelTech, a British company). 

What we had was not working because it needed regular interventions and the lack of sophistication meant that a good win was not changing levels fast enough. 

More detail on the rationale

A fundamental part of the enjoyment of Padel is playing with similar level players.

The social element and “join a match” functionality of the Sevenoaks Padel App means that you will regularly play with players that you may not know. Great games stem from having 4 similar level players on the same court.

“Similar level” becomes the difficult part. How do you / we / the playing public ensure a similar level ?

To address this – most booking systems have a “level” per player. This can originate in various ways but the most common is that the club coaching staff review you in action and assign a starting level – thereafter you may go up or down based on match data (win / loss) and calculated with reference to the levels of the other players in the game.

The top 2 booking platforms used in the UK, Playtomic and Matchpoint TPC (the Sevenoaks Padel App - called MP TPC), use the 1-7 scale and the ELO algorithm to adjust each player based on win/loss and the relative levels of the players in the game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

Developed for chess - the ELO adjustment system battles with 2 elements of padel - that it’s played in pairs and that it uses tennis scoring.

A further issue is that initial levels are either self-assessed (Playtomic) or coach allocated (MP TPC) which introduces subjectivity and error into the process. 

At Sevenoaks we have 7 coaches allocating initial levels and we have found differences between our assessments of similar players.

This creates an administrative burden on the club with a deluge of messages asking for a level to be allocated or imported from another club (which have levelled their players using their own subjective evaluation), or increased to match a friend.

To address this (during the month of June) we developed a spreadsheet and statistical process for allocating new levels. This reduced the subjectivity - but took a lot longer (after the session) and failed to address the levels allocated over the previous 5 months. 

The most accurate way to assign levels is based on relative match data over time. This requires an algorithm that understands player relativity and can handle the 4 players per match based on tennis/padel scoring of games and sets.

There are a few companies addressing this issue: World Padel Rankings (Red Padel), DUPR, Pango (brand new) and LevelTech.

This is not an easy task and there will be lots to learn about setting, adjusting and providing levels.

We selected LevelTech to partner with us on the level’s journey.

LevelTech is the company behind SquashLevels and now PadelLevels. They have been at this for a long time and we (James and Mike) have used Squash Levels for over a decade and can attest to its accuracy and ease of use.

The beauty of PadelLevels is that it is a linear scale.

A rank beginner is 0 (zero). The best in the world is 100,000. The average player is somewhere between 250-3000.

The Great Re-Levelling (initial move from 1-7 to 4 digits)

On Monday 15th September,, we cut over from the old 1-7 MatchPoint scale to the PL 0-100,000.

We then uploaded over 400 matches into PL, creating profiles for all the players in the matches we had on our App.

We have been encouraging people to play matches and enter results either into the App or PL.

Then for everyone who didn’t have match data on the date of the cut over, we converted their existing App level (1-7 scale) into a PL.

Since that change we have seen the community accept that Padel Levels is data-driven and that it gradually moves towards an accurate level as game data is input.

Unfortunately, we also hit numerous bugs in the MP software along the way as they were not set up to handle 4# in every instance.

Working with PL and other clubs who were following our journey, we realised that 1-7 is embedded in the padel community, and there was considerable inertia in moving to a different scale. 

We also noted other clubs that were trying to adopt PL and weren’t able to get 4# to work in their booking and management software.

Padel Levels understood this and adjusted their interface to add a 1-7 equivalent level (also referred to as a Playtomic level).

The Move Back to 1-7

In consultation with PL and other clubs it was clear that the 1-7 scale had momentum and that we could get the best of both worlds in using PL algorithm but converting the PL 4# to the 1-7 scale.

Hence we have moved back to 1-7 but are integrated with PL.

For some people it will be a welcome back and for others a new world. 

We understand that change requires communication and time to be understood. If you have a question - please see the FAQ below - if this doesn’t quite answer your query - please post to the App Help & Feedback group on WhatsApp or send us a Direct Message (DM) on our 7oaks Padmin number. We will do our best to answer every message. 

FAQ

What is the relationship between the 1-7 scale > and the Padel Levels scale ? How do I convert ?

Here is a rough guide:

Old App > PL 

 1.0   >    0
1.75 >  250
2.0   >  380
2.5   >  650
3.0   > 1100
3.5   > 1880
4.0   > 3200 

What about minimum levels for Socials and Coaching

This is the hard part – we have to set a minimum level to ensure quality of play and we have done this in the past using the 1-7 and 4# scales – and hence we will be updating all the activities with the 1-7 scale

If you can’t join an activity because it has the old scale or your level is below the required level – please let us know.

I don’t want to play competitive matches

We understand that not everyone wants to play competitively and record scores. Everyone is welcome to say “Friendly” when creating a match and sharing it. On PL, we have created a PL category for that called Sevenoaks Friendly if you just wish to keep a history of your matches. The default is a Sevenoaks Club Match that applies a factor of 50% to the match results. For the algorithm to work its magic we need data and would like as many game results as possible to be entered.  

Matches are set to “Applies to Ranking”

We have defaulted matches to “Applies to Ranking” (also called “Scores to Count”) so that we get as much data as possible. If you create a match – you can untick this option – that tells people that the data WILL NOT be entered unless you agree otherwise at the start of the game.

If the “Applies to Ranking” is left ticked then it means the result will be entered unless you agree otherwise at the start of a game.

Only the game creator can change this at the creation stage – once set it can’t be changed (we have asked for that to be allowed - feature request). However we can change it on the backend - feel free to DM 7oaks Padmin to get this changed.

When sharing a game that has Applies to Ranking defaulted to on, you can state “No Scores” or “Friendly” meaning that even though the “Applies to Ranking” is on – you will NOT be inserting the results into the App or PL.

The default of Applies to Ranking means that results will be input and it will be a “Sevenoaks Club Match – 50%” which applies a 50% factor to the results when calculating the changes.

I have a (P) next to my level

This means you have a “provisional” level and it will recalc with more data over time and it can change if the players you have played with in the past add more data which changes their ratings. Once you have enough game data, the “P” will disappear.

My PL level is too high or too low

Please play more games and add more data. The algorithm will recalc each night.

Padel is played in pairs so wins/losses are allocated to the pair. Padel Levels attempts to address this by asking regular pairs to both estimate the score if 2x one partner plays 2x the other partner, i.e. who would win and what would the score be? That data is fed into the algorithm in the initial take on months.

We changed partners during the session

This is great – play 1 set with each partner – record the games.

Then enter 3 separate results into PL directly with each pair (please don’t enter the result into the App to avoid duplicate data).

Watch the levels between players adjust over time.

My PL is different to my App level

We will be uploading game data into PL and downloading PL data into the App each week. If you have played at other PL clubs this can be tricky as we don’t always get your new level (we only get players that have “Sevenoaks Padel” as their club or have played at Sevenoaks that week).

My App level hasn’t changed for weeks but PL has changed

Please check that your profile in PL has “Sevenoaks Padel” selected as your primary club. You can change this back to a different club once we have worked out the integration between the systems and automated this.

Your level will fluctuate as the entire dataset is recalculated each night and your level adjusts based on changes to people you have played with or against in the past.
 

There is a duplicate profile on PL

This can occur – careful that it’s not just another person with the same name – check the game data – and if both profiles are yours – use the feature in your profile to request a merge.

I found my name in PL – how do I see the detailed data

You need to “claim” your profile by creating a login with the same name as the profile you are claiming. Please make sure this is EXACTLY the same name as the profile on the Sevenoaks Padel App” and check if we have added a middle initial to differentiate between people with the same first and last name.

I found a profile on PL that isn’t me but has the same name

Please let us know and we will add a middle initial/name on our App and send that to PL.

I have found game data on PL that is wrong

This can happen as the matching algorithm is by name only, which is not unique. It can also happen if data was entered with incorrect pairings. Let us know and we can review and sort it out.

I found a duplicate game result on PL

This happens if the result is entered into PL and App with slightly different info – i.e. slightly different score or a different date. Let us know and we will sort it.

I played a player ranked above me and won – why didn’t my PL go up

The PL algorithm is super sophisticated. It takes into account the levels of all 4 players before the game and the game results and updates every evening. If any player is still provisional (P) you may not see a change until that player has more data.

We won our match but our levels went down

It may happen. The algorithm works out the anticipated result and if you perform below that level – you may go down. So win against 2 low level players 6-4, 6-4 - they may go up and you go down. This is good data for everyone.

My partner's level went u,p but I went down

This will be due to a game you didn’t play together. Check your partner's profile for their game data.